First of all, if you’re wandering in from Freshly Pressed, welcome and thanks for stopping by! Come in, have a cup of tea, and try not to pee on the carpet. No, really.
This is post is in response to a few commenters on last week’s post, who seemed to think that my disagreement with my parents’ beliefs – and subsequent plea for acceptance – was equally as intolerant as their rejection of my sexuality. Some of those comments were mean and hurtful, and got deleted. It’s my blog. I don’t have to read angry stuff on my blog. (Plus, I looked, and youreanidiot@atleastyourdadisalive.com is not a real email address. You get a cookie for using the correct form of “you’re,” though.)
Some others I responded to, but not as in-depth as I would have liked. So here is the whole enchilada, as it were.
Lacey wrote:
I appreciate your honesty. I guess I’m wondering what tolerance looks like to you in the broader sense? Does it mean that people can no longer disagree without being ‘hateful?’ You say, “I will not accept mere tolerance” and I realize you are writing to a family member…but what about the bigger picture. Where is the line? By this logic, you are being intolerant of your Dad’s opinions. I do not mean to be offensive- its an issue I’ve been giving a lot of thought.
This is something that hits a personal spot for me. And I can totally see your point. If I had to boil my moral code down to a single sentence, it would probably be something along the lines of “No one should ever be forced to live according to beliefs they don’t agree with.”
Obviously, speaking in absolutes can get you into trouble – there’s always the devil’s advocate out there with the “Well, what if someone disagrees with the belief that bombing an orphanage full of handicapped children is wrong? According to your logic, that means they should be allowed to do it.” (No. Wrong. According to my logic, they are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe, but their right to bomb the orphanage does not overrule the children’s right live out the rest of their lives as in-one-piece and bombing-free as possible. Your rights end where another person’s begins.)
So I want to clarify something that seemed to cause confusion for a handful of folks, not all of whom were as polite and respectful as Lacey was: Never did I say I wanted my parents to stop being religious. Never did I say I would not love and accept my parents if they continued to live a religious lifestyle. In fact, I know full well that my parents will continue to live their lives they way they have for the past half a century or so. That is not the issue here.
It’s not the disagreement that is hateful. If my parents were to say, “We don’t understand what it’s like to be queer, we’re straight and that’s what makes us happy,” then that is a conflicting worldview with my own, which is roughly: “Living as a queer person makes me happy and brings me more fulfillment than living as a straight person does.” Those two ideas are in disagreement; however, neither one is hateful toward the other.
If my parents were to say, “We don’t understand what it’s like to be queer, because being queer is wrong and those feelings are sent from Satan, and everyone who is queer is disgusting and a bad person,” then not only is that a worldview that conflicts with my own, but is also actively hateful and discriminatory toward me.
Conversely, if I say, “I don’t get any enjoyment or fulfillment out of being religious, I’m atheist and that’s what makes me happy,” that may be in disagreement with my parents’ religious lifestyle, but it isn’t hateful. If I say, “I don’t get any enjoyment or fulfillment out of being religious, and people who do are crazy zealots and bad people,” then that is hateful and discriminatory toward them.
My parents’ faith brings them happiness. It brings them joy and fulfillment. It gives them a steady rock, a foundation on which to build their marriage. Why would I want to take that away from them? To say that, by asking them to reconsider their views on homosexuality, I am somehow forcing them to give up their entire faith life and religious identity… well, the term “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” comes to mind. If it makes them happy, then I am happy that they have it. I would never tell my parents – or anyone, for that matter – that it’s wrong to have religious views and they have to stop being religious.
But their rights end where mine begin, too. I have a right to live my life in the open. I have a right to make the decisions that are best for me, that make me happiest and bring me fulfillment. I have a right to protect myself from those that do me harm.
Even if it’s my parents.
At the heart of the matter is this: my parents and I, we don’t talk. I mean, we chat, but we don’t have meaningful conversations about the important stuff. And this journey I’m on, this path of self-discovery I’m walking down, is incredibly important to me. The fact that they don’t even want to talk about it – that they’d rather just pretend it didn’t exist so they can say they love me anyway – is fucking painful. I honestly think it’d be easier to deal with it if they hated me. Then, at least, I could convince myself that it wasn’t worth the effort. But I wrote last week’s letter because a part of me yearns to open up that dialogue, to state my case and make them see that it isn’t what they thought it was. To ask if they could ever love a daughter that was openly queer. To see if they’d come around.
And, if not, to walk away. Not because I immediately shut out everyone who disagrees with me, but because there comes a point where a relationship causes more pain than you can bear. Because loving myself means being strong enough to sever ties in order to stop hurting.
So there’s the heart of the matter. I can’t accept tolerance, because tolerance means We Don’t Talk About It. Tolerance means “Penny has a dirty little secret the family doesn’t talk about.” Tolerance means “Poor Penny is so misguided and such a sinner, too bad she’s going to hell, it makes me so sad because I love her so much.” Tolerance is “Penny posted on Facebook today about how much she loves her lady friend, and I felt it was my duty to tell her how wrong she is to be living like that and how I disapprove of it.*”
Meanwhile… acceptance means We’ve Talked About It, And We Don’t Agree, But We Respect Each Other. Acceptance means “I don’t understand why Penny lives the way she does, but we’re talking about it so I can try to see her side of it.” Acceptance means “This life makes Penny happy, and I trust that she is smart enough to make the choices that are right for her, and I will love her and be there for her in whatever way she needs me to be.” Acceptance would be “Penny posted on Facebook today about how much she loves her lady friend, and it’s kind of weird for me to read that but she’s an adult and I respect her.”
I don’t think that’s asking too much from a parent. I don’t think that’s asking too much from anyone who claims to love me. I am the only one who can decide what I need from the people in my life in order to feel loved – and I have the right to ask for that.
Whether or not I get it is an entirely different question.
*Expected results; mileage may vary
Penny Gets Lucky 
ch1ck4do0dl3
Huh. I feel like you’ve set the bar for “tolerance” pretty low, here. I’m not saying that to be rude; I’d hope that people treat you (and everyone else) with at least basic human dignity and respect. I’ve just always thought of tolerance as being much closer to what you define as acceptance–they’re close to the same thing in my head.
As to the struggles your facing in your relationships with your family, I hope that you can all come to a place of understanding, where everyone’s okay with everyone else. I also hope that, if that is not possible, that you can find those to whom you may not be directly related, but who you can call family anyway. You deserve the same respect and love as everyone else does, and I’m glad you’re able to accept yourself and explore who you are, even when others are discouraging.
pennyposh
I think I understand what you’re saying; the key difference for me is that when people say they “tolerate” something, that very rarely means it’s something they’re actually okay with. For instance, if you were like “Wanna go get pizza?” and I was like “Eh, I guess I could tolerate pizza…” we’d probably end up figuring out something else to eat. If you say you tolerate your roommate, that’s probably an indicator you two don’t actually get along terribly well.
It’s okay if my parents don’t accept my sexuality and my life choices; but I don’t want to spend time around people who just tolerate my presence. I want to be around people who love and accept me.
ch1ck4do0dl3
Ah, okay, I see what you’re saying, and I totally agree. Being around people who “graciously allow” (the internet cannot adequately express the gallons of sarcasm pouring from those words) you into their presence even though they don’t love/accept you sucks. Like I said, I hope you are able to surround yourself with those who do love and accept you as you are. :)
Larissa Lee
I ran across the Freshly Pressed entry, and it struck a cord. I sent an email like your letter, only I’m a polyamorous woman with two men who love me, and I wrote to my atheist conservative father. I asked him to accept and tolerate me, like I have before when I came out as a Wiccan, or chose to be vegetarian for a while. I expected only tolerance, in that “Larissa is making a HUGE mistake and I can’t wait to say I told you so, but she’s still my daughter” kind of way. I was told not to bother visiting home again, as long as I wasn’t monogamous. So… I guess I’m saying, I feel your pain and understand why it’s the letter you can’t bring yourself to send.
SoCal Chica
Very well put.
Kitty
I am so sorry you had to deal with mean and hateful comments like that! “At least your dad is alive?” Seriously? When my friends are having a bad day, I don’t say things like “At least you don’t have terminal cancer” or “At least you didn’t have to withdraw life support on your child today” even though I see people with those problems all the time. What the hell people.
pennyposh
Well, I figure folks like that are missing the point anyway.
And, honestly, it’s been like maybe a half-dozen comments out of the (seemingly) hundreds I’ve received that didn’t make it through moderation for reasons like that. So all in all, that’s not so bad. I have been reading lots more (much-appreciated!) support. :)
Tacey
I am literally jumping around because you are the first person to see things the way I do. People think I’m harsh because I need to protect myself rather than lie to make others happy.
Kasey Weird
Ahh, yeah, the idea that the person who defines and strongly defends their own personal boundaries is the one causing problems, and not, y’know, the person who’s violating other people’s boundaries is waay too common. When people criticize you, hit ’em with the foot-stepping analogy
Tacey
But I am sorry that you are going through this at all.
aaliyahmorgan
Strong woman. Inspirational! I had never read any blogs before until I started blogging myself the other day and came across yours among a few others. Your blog is very compelling and you are completely right. Mere tolerance will not suffice when it comes to family. You seem like a very respectable strong woman, well on your way down that path of self-discovery.
Sin
Hugs and love to Penny! <3 this post and congrats on fresh pressed lady!
I can be all hipster and say "I knew her BEFORE fresh pressed!" :)
pennyposh
:D
“Oh yeah, PGL was so much more authentic back before she sold out.”
That will be a thing. :p
Black British Lesbian
Hmmm, you’ve highlighted the fact that my mother certainly doesn’t accept me and just about tolerates me being a lesbian. However, if tolerance means at least acknowledging, then I guess I don’t even get that!
I totally agree with protecting yourself from the hurt by severing ties, it’s an act of strength…one I don’t seem to have just yet. Sometimes I find comfort in what I’m use to: hurt and pain, but perhaps letting go of that hurt and pain means finding the strength to let go of people who don’t snd won’t accept me. No matter who they are!
As a new blogger, it’s great to read that you delete rude comments! Really am enjoying your blogs!
myblueeyeswithoutblinders
Said very well. I support and I follow you.
Malice O'Conner
Look one thing to note is that there is the fact that you don’t seem to understand your parents points of views. I admit that even now I don’t understand the ways my parents see things. They will never understand my road or my ways, they tried everything to get me to understand and vice versa but we are entirely different. I accept my path as different, and I make my choices knowing the responsibility in them. Took me a lot of negative ones to start to understand better ones. I am not chastising you or your behavior merely remarking on my own past. I also accept that my Dad will never understand me, but I have accepted who he is for his beliefs, thoughts and feelings, he may love me but shows it in the ways he does and I don’t always notice. He did his best with me even though I chose different than he wanted. He will always be a part of me. The fact is though that I accept that which I can not change. I can’t change him or his ways. I accept him for who he chooses, if he doesn’t like my choices than as my father I give him the credit to worry or not like them. But as an individual I inform him that it is my choice and my life. This he must accept if he is to have me in his life. Just my experience and thoughts
Normal is the New Weird
Congrats on being pressed (that’s how I found ya) and also congrats for living your life and being you. Parents are tough, and they can be hurtful even when well-meaning.
Amen to the above comment about deleting rude comments. You don’t need that crap in your life, especially from people you don’t know. It’s a big enough uphill battle with people you DO know sometimes. You know?
Looking forward to reading more. And the Alot is the best creature ever.
hisredrighthand
I don’t know if you remember my comment on the original post. It might be that I got the wrong impression of how your father reacted. Tolerance comes from ‘to endure’, so to tolerate something that goes against one’s beliefs and values means not only to accept the situation, but to make every effort not to offend the other person. Being self-righteous, judgemental and patronizing has nothing to do with tolerance. It’s not even christian. The bible tells us “don’t judge lest ye be judged”, according to the christian faith, we are all sinners before the lord.
That being said, I think you’re mistaken in assuming that the christian faith is something like a comfort thing. Although there are certainly many americans that use it that way. But for a true believer, being a christian entails many painful experiences. Just imagine for a moment what it feels like if you truly believe that Jesus Christ has died for your sins, because he knows you, because he loves you. Imagine what it feels like to know you’ve been forgiven, to no longer have to fear death or old age – because you have been given eternal life. Imagine now you have a daughter that you love, that you watched growing up. But for some reason you have failed to make her understand. For some reason she doesn’t even believe that God exists. You feel that you’ve failed her, you’re afraid that you’ll lose her and you despair at the thought that your child might go to hell.
Maybe your parents are simply holier-than-thou bigots that like to judge other people. Maybe they’re afraid to be judged by others. But if they feel the way I’ve tried to describe above, I can understand that it is hard for them to share your enthusiasm. I’m sure they would like to make you feel accepted. I’m sure they would prefer harmony to conflict. But maybe they just love you too much.
pennyposh
They… love me too much to love me for who I am?
Or is it that they love me too much to get to know me?
I’m confused.
Inspirations Inspire
You are wonderful and perfect as you are, gay straight or otherwise. Your strength is inspirational. Keep going, I’m waving your flag for acceptance for everyone’s right to feel whole and complete no matter what their sexuality or beliefs are. x
Del March
“I would never tell my parents – or anyone, for that matter – that it’s wrong to have religious views and they have to stop being religious.”
And yet, you don’t want them to believe it’s wrong to be queer, and you don’t want them to speak out and act out on that belief. This IS what their religion says, but they shouldn’t believe it and they shouldn’t mention it; how is that supposed to work, exactly?
“But their rights end where mine begin, too.”
I think that’s the heart of the matter. See, your rights and your parents’ rights do NOT end where the others’ begin. No – they overlap. You have the right to live an openly queer life AND they have the right to disagree with that and to say so. It’s not either/or; it’s both.
“The fact that they don’t even want to talk about it – that they’d rather just pretend it didn’t exist so they can say they love me anyway – is fucking painful.”
And the fact that you even are on this path to begin with is fucking painful to them. They hurt you because their beliefs condemn your life, and you hurt them because your life scares them to death that you will end up in an eternity of pain. You ALL lose. This is something you need to understand: your parents are no more winning in this matter than you are. You are ALL losing and hurting.
“I can’t accept tolerance, because tolerance means We Don’t Talk About It. Tolerance means “Penny has a dirty little secret the family doesn’t talk about.” Tolerance means “Poor Penny is so misguided and such a sinner, too bad she’s going to hell, it makes me so sad because I love her so much.””
But… this IS what they believe. Do you really want them to lie to you?
“acceptance means We’ve Talked About It, And We Don’t Agree, But We Respect Each Other.”
Weird. Technically, this is pretty much the definition of Tolerance, not Acceptance. Tolerance is when you don’t understand or don’t agree with someone else, but you respect them and their right to hold their position anyway.
“Acceptance means “I don’t understand why Penny lives the way she does, but we’re talking about it so I can try to see her side of it.””
Why does it matter so much to you that they talk about it? You know it’s distressing to them that you live this life, so why do you want them to talk about it? And also: even if they talked to you about it, would you ever be satisfied if they never agreed with your views? Are you willing to grant them the right to never be happy about your queerness, no matter how much they learn about it?
“I don’t think that’s asking too much from anyone who claims to love me.”
Are you willing to give as much to your parents? Are you willing to grant them the right to believe what they believe, and say what they think, and act as they think is right? Are you willing to compromise with them, so that all of you can fully exercise all of your rights without hurting each other all the time?
pennyposh
I’ve already responded to your points in my other comment. I don’t feel it’s necessary to defend my feelings and desires to you. Please be advised that more comments of this nature will be taken down.
Del March
I’m sorry that I made you feel attacked. You don’t need to defend your feelings and desires to me, because I never meant to say that you’re not entitled to them in the first place. I’m just trying to understand, and to share all the shades of grey I see in what you seem to see as a black-and-white situation. Again, sorry for making you feel attacked; it was not my intention, but I can see how my dissection of your words can look like a condemnation of your opinions and feelings. My bad.
pennyposh
Thank you, I appreciate that.